The recorder world is such a varied one, with people who enjoy our instrument in many different ways - players, composers, makers and more. I’ve had the privilege of working with some wonderful musicians and I’d love to be able help you get to know them better too.
I’m starting this occasional series of interviews with someone I’ve known for over twenty years - the composer, Steve Marshall. I’m lucky enough to count Steve as a good friend, and it’s been an honour and a privilege to be the first recipient of many of his compositions and arrangements. I’m very grateful to Steve for taking so much time and care in answering my questions - I’ve learnt a lot from them and I hope you’ll enjoy them too!
Several of Steve’s compositions and arrangements have made it into my library of recorder consort videos over the last couple of years and I’m grateful for his generosity in allowing me to share the music with you. I hope knowing more about his approach to music may encourage you to explore them further - all of them can be found here.
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Please would you tell us about your background? Have you always worked in music?
There have been three major threads in my life:
1. My love of mathematics from a very early age, eventually leading to a maths degree, and then to a career in finance.
2. My love of music beginning at around 14.
3. My love of a very special person. You may now all say 'ahhh'!
I grew increasingly fed up that the time I could spend on music was being squeezed by a demanding job in finance, and so at the tender age of 50 I took a (very) early retirement. Ann continued paid work, while I launched May Hill Edition, composed like crazy, and tried to make some sort of living out of it.
A small selection of the music published by May Hill Edition - green covers for Steve’s pieces and yellow for those by Ann Marshall, who is also a prolific composer.
How did you start to compose?
At school there were only four of us doing Art O-level, and only me doing both Art and Mathematics. We had our own small art room, and we were allowed to bring music tapes into our room, as long as we played them quietly. One day someone brought in a tape of an album by the jazz trumpeter Miles Davis. I had never heard anything like it before, and I was absolutely fascinated.
Within a very short time, four of us started improvising music together (at home, not at school!), and soon after that I started to put some structure to the improvisations, unsurprisingly following the example of Miles Davis. For the rest of my time at school I continued to develop what the quartet was doing, and we ended up as a school partly-improvising big band (completely independent of the staid 'proper' music teaching at the school).
That was what happened, but a very reasonable question from non-composers would be how could someone with no music background start improvising music, and putting structure to the improvisations? And I'm afraid that I don't really know. I could effortlessly come up with melodies, and appropriate chords and rhythms. And I hesitate to say this, but for a long time I assumed that everybody could do these things. I like to think that I was modest and self-effacing about these unearned skills, but I suspect that I often wasn't.
How (if at all) has your composing changed over the years?
My compositions, beginning with those I wrote at school, have tended to be strongly influenced by the (diverse) music groups in which I was playing at the time. And hence by the musical styles those groups favoured, and by the composers writing in those styles. Let's make a tour of the music I have been involved with over the years – a fairly brief tour, I promise!
At University, I was invited to join a jazz-rock band, writing their material and playing saxophone. Up to this point my music had not been conventionally notated, but I got the hang of it quite quickly.
Sometime later, I started classical guitar lessons, and soon turned up at a lesson with a guitar piece that I had written. My teacher said that it was good, but that I probably needed to do music O-level, which I did when I was 26, then taking A-level at 28. I particularly loved formal music theory. Around this time I began composition lessons.
In my mid-thirties I was in a jazz band, a large choir, a chamber choir and an opera group. I cannot begin to understand how I could have fitted in all of these. And at the same time I was having jazz composition lessons, and composing for all of the groups with which I was involved. Yes, I even wrote a three-act opera, and this was in the days when all music was hand-written!
When I was nearing 40, we moved to work in France. Before long I was playing in a pop group, writing the music for the expat pantomime, and singing in two choirs (sight-reading tenors always seem to be in demand). We also had an interesting 'storytelling group', for which I wrote the music.
Ten years later, at the age of 50, we returned to England. I joined a choir and played in a jazz big band. And that was when I became involved in the world of recorders (I'll get to that soon). I also joined a group playing contemporary music, playable by amateurs. Again, I composed for all of these ensembles.
I said earlier that I have composed for every group with which I have been involved, and so it is not surprising that my musical style is difficult to pin down, and that I am today rarely short of a musical idea.
Finally, I was fascinated by a Postgraduate Diploma in Music, which I gained in 2015. It was a musicology degree, which did not directly involve composition, but it was most interesting and I learned a lot about music in general.
Steve conducting a recorder orchestra
How did you come to the recorder?
When we returned to England, we lived in a flat in Bristol for a year. My main instrument at the time was the saxophone – far too loud for a flat. I happened to have bought a tenor recorder many decades earlier, although I hadn't used it much. I dug it out, had a look on the internet, and found that there was some organisation called the Society of Recorder Players with a branch in Bristol, and they had a meeting the following day. The rest, as they say, is history.
Do you play other instruments too?
I have always been interested in instruments, have played some tolerably well, and tinkered with others. So I still have (and occasionally play) saxophones, classical guitar, vibraphone, Theramin (two actually) and bass clarinet. I also still sing. I did love playing the tuba for a few months, but I'm afraid that the time required to become a good player would probably be more than the time remaining to me!
Steve as soloist, playing the tubax (subcontrabass saxophone) with the Thames Valley Recorder Orchestra in 2015
As someone for whom composing doesn’t come naturally, I’m always interested to understand what drives composers to create. Do you tend to write new pieces spontaneously, or do you prefer to write to commission?
I usually write 'to commission', whether or not for money. Sometimes I write without a commission, but then I tend to have a group (or type of group) in mind.
I do occasionally write something just for myself, usually either (1) to explore some compositional feature (such as double fugue or atonality) or (2) to arrange a piece I like, especially when it is difficult music to arrange – the original may, for example, involve instruments that are quirky or have a large range.
One of the things I find overwhelming with composition is knowing where to begin. How do you start a new piece? Do you begin with a theme and see where it leads you, or do compositions tend to be fairly well formed in your mind before you think about putting pen to paper?
I start a new piece by trying to be clear about who is likely to be playing it. That gives me an idea of how difficult to make the music, what sort of music will find favour, and how long the piece should be.
I often spend some time blocking out what is likely to happen, especially if it's a more formal piece (such as a minuet) or extra-especially if it's a multi-movement piece. But even when blocking out, I never ignore a good tune that presents itself, even though I may eventually store it for future use. Sometimes I don't block out at all, instead preferring to welcome some tune that just pops up and – yes – I then see where it leads me.
Whatever my approach to developing a piece, I am in the fortunate position of having been involved in a wide variety of musical ensembles, and I don't need to wait long before some musical idea occurs. But don't be too impressed - you get pretty good at anything after more than 50 years of constant practice!
Incidentally, there is a little trick that I use quite a lot. When we are going somewhere in the car, and it's raining, that is a prime occasion for coming up with tunes and/or rhythms. Those windscreen wipers make a great rhythmic framework for dreaming up music, and that's why I always keep some manuscript paper in the car, just in case some timeless classic occurs to me.
I’d love to know if you have particular favourite pieces of music which you return to listen to regularly, or are you a musical magpie - always on the lookout for shiny new music!
I think that the answer is both. I have always been much more a composer and player than a listener, but there is music I listen to for enjoyment. For some reason, almost all of this music was written later than 1900.
I do have 'old favourites' such as the jazz-influenced and rock-influenced music of Miles Davis, Nucleus and Soft Machine. I have always liked Vaughan Williams, Holst and Bartok, as well as the Minimalists - John Adams, Terry Riley, Steve Reich and Philip Glass. I like some folk-tinged music, such as Fairport Convention, Richard Thompson and Joni Mitchell. I like the musicals of Stephen Sondheim.
But I also spend some time (usually around lunchtime) exploring music on YouTube. A lot of this music is undiluted pop music, my current favourite being by Adele. My YouTube musical adventures can take me anywhere, especially as I have the (perhaps odd) ability of being able to find music interesting, even if I don't like it. My dear Mum used to think I was crazy (although obviously she was completely wrong!)
How would you describe your own musical style?
The style in which I write my recorder music is influenced by many things, but it usually uses traditional harmony, or at least traditional jazz and rock harmony. I prefer friendly keys, so that my music is playable by a good number of players. At one time my rhythms were often jazzy, but I have reined them in somewhat since I started writing for recorders, again in the interests of playability for recorder groups. For example, I now severely ration my crotchet triplets!
I’ve played a huge mix of your music over the years - everything from solos and chamber music to large scale orchestral works. I’d love to know if there’s a type of music you get a particular kick out of writing? And what type of players do you most enjoy composing for?
What I get the biggest kick out of writing is music which is sonorous, beautiful and liable to be played well by groups of recorder players.
Deep down I do retain a slight preference for writing jazzy music. But jazzy music is rarely sonorous, beautiful and liable to be played well by groups of recorder players (the latter because jazz playing conventions are not familiar to most recorder players).
But this is no problem at all! There is a vast quantity and range of non-jazzy music still to be written, and I will be delighted if I can write some of it, and if friendly recorder players can enjoy playing it.
The joy when an ensemble plays your music just right!
Your music often makes prominent use of bass instruments and you’re frequently to be found sitting behind a contrabass recorder in ensembles and orchestras. What is it that draws you to the lower recorders?
I think there are three main reasons that I am attracted to the big recorders.
1. I much prefer experiencing music in terms of the lowest part, to hear how that part underpins the music. I'm afraid that high-pitched decoration doesn't do much for me.
2. I was able to buy these expensive (hence uncommon) big instruments, and so I am able to enhance the sound of recorder ensembles.
3. I am not naturally dexterous, and it's better to leave the whizzy small-instrument stuff to those who are!
As a photographer I often find I work best when I have creative limitations placed upon me - perhaps using just one lens or photographing to a specific theme. Is this something you use in your composing, or do you prefer to have a completely free rein?
In the words of Margaret Atwood 'The fact is that a blank page inspires me with terror.' That's a bit dramatic, but I know what she means. In any case, I love having creative limitations. And if I am not given any, then I make them up for myself. A recent commissioner of a piece gave me very few limitations, so I decided for myself that the piece needed precisely six variations on a theme, and that it was essential for each variation to comprise exactly twenty bars – I was much happier.
You’re such a prolific composer that I suspect the answer to this question will change with the passage of time, but are there pieces you’ve written that you would especially like to be remembered for?
I'm always pleased when I've written something that is a 'first' in the field in which I'm writing. So I'm particularly fond of my Recorder Concerto No 1 (the first for solo recorder and recorder orchestra), Prelude and Boogie (the first for a one-to-a-part chamber recorder orchestra) and Totally Tropical (the first for an eight-foot orchestra). But possibly above all I am a fan of my Elody Concerto – not only is it for solo recorder and recorder orchestra, but the solo instrument is the Elody 'electric recorder', AND one Helen Hooker played it brilliantly well at the world premier!
These are the pieces that I am most fond of, but I'm not all that concerned about how I would like them to be remembered – I won't be around to be bothered either way.
As a recorder player, what gives you the most pleasure?
Broadly speaking, the most pleasure I get as a recorder player is when I play my subcontrabass (i.e. contrabass in C). And the feeling is at its best when the recorder orchestra is large and my part is an octave below the contrabasses. The science of acoustics then makes itself felt, and the bottom end of the orchestra becomes rich and powerful. Terrific!
The single piece that gives me the most pleasure is my favourite piece of music in any genre - In C by Terry Riley. To be precise, I quite enjoy listening to a CD of the piece but, for me, the whole point of In C is the experience of playing it in a living-and-breathing ensemble. It satisfies everything that I could want from a piece of music – it has strict rules, but it requires a great deal of improvisation (which I love), and close teamwork between the players is essential. Over the years I have played it on the saxophone, and when I more-or-less gave up the sax in favour of the recorder, I assumed that my days of playing In C were over. But I'm delighted to say that it works really well on recorders too!
How do you like to spend your time when you’re not writing or playing music? Do you have any exciting upcoming projects you can tell us about?
I have always crammed an awful lot into my life, a cramming that is no less as I pass my 70th birthday. I am a keen cook, and I always have been. Related to that, my waistline kept on increasing, despite being an enthusiastic walker. A few years ago I finally overcame my weight problem, and wrote a book about how I slimmed down and maintained the large loss (for seven years and counting). Sticking to my own advice absorbs considerable time!
At the moment I am spending a lot of my life writing poetry and (particularly) drawing. I am working on a book that combines the two.
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Are there other people in the recorder world you’d like me to interview? Recorder makers, composers, performers? Do leave a comment below and I’ll see what I can do!
